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and chuck hagel. and you can not compare the first two to chuck haguel. after i watched the hearing, i remembered the lyrics to a country song. you mean i shaved my legs for this? you mean we're having this huge fight over this guy who cannot even articulate our policy towards iran? >> robert? >> let's be clear. >> this performance was not good. >> two things. i want to go about something that ana just said. if you turned on cspan and hadn't watched tv in the intervening six years, you would think we had 150,000 troops parked right now in iraq. this next defense secretary is not going to deal with iraq and the surge. this was a vanity thing for john mccain to try to approprove to former friend who disagreed with him that he was right on the surge and that chuck hagel was wrong. >> what should hagel have said? what would you have told him to say? >> i think he said correctly, we're going to let history judge iraq, because frankly chuck hagel could have said, senator mccain, i think i might have been wrong on iraq. were you wrong on iraq? here's the questio
and chuck hagel. and you can not compare the first two to chuck haguel. after i watched the hearing, i remembered the lyrics to a country song. you mean i shaved my legs for this? you mean we're having this huge fight over this guy who cannot even articulate our policy towards iran? >> robert? >> let's be clear. >> this performance was not good. >> two things. i want to go about something that ana just said. if you turned on cspan and hadn't watched tv in the intervening...
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chuck hagel is expected to be confirmed as defense secretary despite a rough day of questioning on capitol hill. his record as a senator caused frequent concern for the senate armed services committee. in 2001 hagel voted against sanctions on iran to stop the country from obtaining nuclear weapons. he apologized for his offensive comments that accuse israeli lobbyists of intimidating lawmakers. >> you said the jewish lobby, that term shouldn't have been used, it should have been some other term. name one person in your opinion who is intimidated by the israeli lobby in the united states senate. >> i have stated that i regret the terminology. >> but you said back then, it makes us do dumb things. >> if confirmed, hagel would be the first vietnam veteran to be defense secretary. his supporters say his experience makes him uniquely qualified. a vote is expected next week. >>> today in virginia, texting while driving could get closer to becoming illegal. a senate committee will vote on that legislation today. one bill up for consideration would increase the fine from 20 to $250. it would make
chuck hagel is expected to be confirmed as defense secretary despite a rough day of questioning on capitol hill. his record as a senator caused frequent concern for the senate armed services committee. in 2001 hagel voted against sanctions on iran to stop the country from obtaining nuclear weapons. he apologized for his offensive comments that accuse israeli lobbyists of intimidating lawmakers. >> you said the jewish lobby, that term shouldn't have been used, it should have been some...
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hagel at defense however problematic that confirmation hearing goes, what do you think the president is saying with this new national security team about what he wants to accomplish in the world in a second term? >> well, i think in the case of senator hagel, i think he will be confirmed. i think the choice there fits very well with what the president said in his inaugural speech he mentioned a decade of war is ending. his job will be to get u.s. armed forces out of afghanistan in a responsible way but to get them out. and then to look at cutting the defense budget. i think those are the two principle responsibilities that the president wants to see him fulfill. and hagel is the right man for that kind of job. senator kerry as secretary of state will be i think different to what we've gotten used to and admired so much in secretary of state hillary clinton. she has been
hagel at defense however problematic that confirmation hearing goes, what do you think the president is saying with this new national security team about what he wants to accomplish in the world in a second term? >> well, i think in the case of senator hagel, i think he will be confirmed. i think the choice there fits very well with what the president said in his inaugural speech he mentioned a decade of war is ending. his job will be to get u.s. armed forces out of afghanistan in a...
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hagel, but chuck hagel is a step closer tonight, brian. he got through a key committee and there might be a full vote on his confirmation by as early as thursday. >> chuck todd, we'll see more of you later tonight. thanks. >>> and let's bring in the rest of our team, joined by three former nbc news white house correspondents here in the studio, david gregory, andrea mitchell and savannah guthrie. not an attempt to make anybody feel old. david, we will start with you. what are you looking for tonight? >> this is ultimately about the economy. economic restoration is really what the president those focus on in a second term. he has got an opportunity here on guns. you will see a big show of that tonight. on immigration, he can work with republicans but there is bedrock opposition. i spent time with the house speaker today. these two sides are so far apart on taxes and spending. they don't see a way really to get together. i think it's going to be tough speech from that point of view and i think republicans are only gonna dig in. >> savannah,
hagel, but chuck hagel is a step closer tonight, brian. he got through a key committee and there might be a full vote on his confirmation by as early as thursday. >> chuck todd, we'll see more of you later tonight. thanks. >>> and let's bring in the rest of our team, joined by three former nbc news white house correspondents here in the studio, david gregory, andrea mitchell and savannah guthrie. not an attempt to make anybody feel old. david, we will start with you. what are you...
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he says he'll hold up the nominations of chuck hagel as defense secretary and john brennan as cia director until he gets more information regarding the syrian attack on the u.s. embassy. >>> and "argo" continuing its winning streak. the latest hardware picked up, next. >>> coming up on "sports final," no jacket required as the cavaliers renew their former battle in college park. lebron turns up the heat in los angeles. and we check in with rg-3 on his recovery. >> i've just got to be smart about it and >> that's coming up on "sports final" right after the news. >>> another win for "argo." it's adding best picture at the british academy film awards. ben affleck also won best director. >>> you may have noticed gas prices are rapidly going up. the average price for a gallon has gone up just about a quarter in two weeks. according to aaa, the national average is now $3.58 a gallon. around here the average in virginia is $3.46, maryland at $3.59 and the district up to $3. 74. experts blaming a rise in wholesale prices. >>> conflicting reports about how close we are between a merger of american
he says he'll hold up the nominations of chuck hagel as defense secretary and john brennan as cia director until he gets more information regarding the syrian attack on the u.s. embassy. >>> and "argo" continuing its winning streak. the latest hardware picked up, next. >>> coming up on "sports final," no jacket required as the cavaliers renew their former battle in college park. lebron turns up the heat in los angeles. and we check in with rg-3 on his...
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hagel, including 3,000 at the pearl harbor shipyard in hawaii. >> by saying that we get the retro pay and recalled in is a a huge relief. >> but another roughly 400,000 workers are off the job. the president is urging them to re-open the government without trying to delay the health care law. >> there are not the votes in the house to pass a clean cr. >> reporter: they accused the speaker of playing politics and dared him to put the measure up for a vote. >> put it on the floor monday or tuesday. i would bet there are the votes to pass it. >> reporter: as many as 22 republicans would vote with democrats to open up the government with no strings attached. still, some republicans are blaming the president for refusing to negotiate. >> they're the ones unwilling to compromise on any facet of obama care. >> their view is not reasonable. >> reporter: another crisis looms. when the u.s. will reach its debt limit on october 17th in just ten days running out of money to pay its bills. jack lew warns of dire economic consequences. >> it's a place we've never gone. it's very dangerous. >> repor
hagel, including 3,000 at the pearl harbor shipyard in hawaii. >> by saying that we get the retro pay and recalled in is a a huge relief. >> but another roughly 400,000 workers are off the job. the president is urging them to re-open the government without trying to delay the health care law. >> there are not the votes in the house to pass a clean cr. >> reporter: they accused the speaker of playing politics and dared him to put the measure up for a vote. >> put it...
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. >>> the senate is voting n whether to confirm chuck hagel. president obama nominated the former republican senator from nebraska to replace leon panetta. a rocky confirmation hearing put the nomination in jeopardy. the senators involved in the hearing, he said, did not focus on key issues. >> it's obvious that the political knives were out for chuck hagel. >> what disappointed me is that they talked a lot about past quotes. but what about what a secretary of defense is confronting today. what about the war in afghanistan, the war on terrorism. what about the budget sequester and the impact it will have on readiness. >> panetta and martin dempsey say they expect hagel will be confirmed. >>> panetta discussed u.s. drone attacks on potential terrorist targets, they said they don't come lightly. he added there's an intricate process of establishing targets. those who authorize the drone attacks make sure it's focused on terrorists. >>> a coast guard officer will be honored for rescuing a pilot from a navy jet crash. petty officer nicholas bean wi
. >>> the senate is voting n whether to confirm chuck hagel. president obama nominated the former republican senator from nebraska to replace leon panetta. a rocky confirmation hearing put the nomination in jeopardy. the senators involved in the hearing, he said, did not focus on key issues. >> it's obvious that the political knives were out for chuck hagel. >> what disappointed me is that they talked a lot about past quotes. but what about what a secretary of defense is...
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former nebraska senator chuck hagel could be one step closer to being confirmed. the committee plans to put the nomination up for a vote. >>> now to the ongoing search for the ex-officer wanted for murder. new documents reveal christopher dorner might have fled to mexico. as police continue their manhunt across southern california, authorities are searching more than 30 square miles across the big bear area, which includes a popular ski resort. dorner's burned-out truck was found in the area with weapons and camping gear inside. dorner was fired a few years ago from the lapd and it's believed his attacks are part of a revenge plot. >> to be targeted because you took an oath to protect others, to have your family targeted because they're related to you, that is absolutely terrifying. >> authorities have increased security along the u.s./mexico border and warn airport security to be on the lookout for dorner. >>> two men are if jail this morning accused of killing a 15-year-old who recently performed during inauguration festivities here in washington. chicago police
former nebraska senator chuck hagel could be one step closer to being confirmed. the committee plans to put the nomination up for a vote. >>> now to the ongoing search for the ex-officer wanted for murder. new documents reveal christopher dorner might have fled to mexico. as police continue their manhunt across southern california, authorities are searching more than 30 square miles across the big bear area, which includes a popular ski resort. dorner's burned-out truck was found in...
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chuck hagel, could be one step closer to being confirmed today. the nomination will be put to a vote. >>> one of panetta's last acts as defense secretary was to extend a list of benefits for same sex spouses and significant others of service members. the perks which were previously denied by the pentagon include child care services, as well as access to on-base commissaries and movie theaters. the policy changes go into effect once training is completed. >> jobs do you know about what's on your credit report? as many as 40 million americans have errors on their credit reports, things like misspelled names, wrong addresses and birth dates. and even in some cases, wrong payment history. those mistakes can keep you from getting a loan, qualifying for lower interest rates and even cost you your job. if you find an error on your credit report, you should immediately contact the credit agencies. >>> this morning, intrigue is building around the world about who will be the next pope. next month more than 100 cardinals will meet at the vatican to begin th
chuck hagel, could be one step closer to being confirmed today. the nomination will be put to a vote. >>> one of panetta's last acts as defense secretary was to extend a list of benefits for same sex spouses and significant others of service members. the perks which were previously denied by the pentagon include child care services, as well as access to on-base commissaries and movie theaters. the policy changes go into effect once training is completed. >> jobs do you know about...
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we ended the week with president's nomination of chuck hagel as defense secretary on hold were do thing goes from here? >> reporter: well, on "meet the press," senator john mccain said while he doesn't believe hagel is qualified, he also doesn't believe his nomination process should be held up any longer. the full senate is expected to vote on hagel when it reconvenes next week. >> kristen welker tonight. thank you. >>> as you just heard, one of the big issues in the immigration debate is border security. despite progress claimed by the federal government, nbc's mark potter found that for some americans who live near mexico, the border is anything but secure. >> reporter: in the rugged terrain south of tucson, arizona, advocates concerned buzz border security took matters into their own hands and placed motion sensitive hidden cameras on known smuggling trails and this is their video, revealing wave after wave of mexican drug and immigrant smugglers, some of them heavily armed who cross the border and travel miles north inside the united states. >> a trail coming in. >> reporter: it's w
we ended the week with president's nomination of chuck hagel as defense secretary on hold were do thing goes from here? >> reporter: well, on "meet the press," senator john mccain said while he doesn't believe hagel is qualified, he also doesn't believe his nomination process should be held up any longer. the full senate is expected to vote on hagel when it reconvenes next week. >> kristen welker tonight. thank you. >>> as you just heard, one of the big issues in...
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and he added hagel has good ideas on how to protect america >>> chuck todd is filling in for david gregory this week on "meet the press." he will interview pennetta as well as general martin dempsey, and he will sit down with bob costas, and you can catch "meet the press" at 10:30 here on nbc 4. >>> this past week twitter might have accessed the profiles of around 250,000 users, and we have more on how security companies are working to keep those sites and your information safe. >> at the offices of a security consulta consultant, a constant vigil looks for signs of attacks on them and clients. they look for ways to step ahead to block intrusions from succeeding. >> very often we see companies have not invested in responding to the fact they will sustain a breach. >> with cyber attacks on the rise against banks and social media and the systems that keep the company growing, there's a worry the u.s. faces a serious shor of people who know how to respond. >> it takes 1,000 hours, just like a pilot, you can't be a good cyber person unless you actually fought in cyber space, either in a simula
and he added hagel has good ideas on how to protect america >>> chuck todd is filling in for david gregory this week on "meet the press." he will interview pennetta as well as general martin dempsey, and he will sit down with bob costas, and you can catch "meet the press" at 10:30 here on nbc 4. >>> this past week twitter might have accessed the profiles of around 250,000 users, and we have more on how security companies are working to keep those sites and...
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chuck hagel will be in delaware when the remains of four u.s. soldiers killed in afghanistan arrive. private 50 class cody patterson was one killed on sunday. the remains of all four are being flown to dover for processing. the families are usually there, but it's rare for the secretary of defense to be. they call it a dignified return ceremony. no word on whether hagel's visit has to do with the families not getting the death benefits because of the shut down. they want to make sure the families receive the benefits they are due. the service members killed since october 1st to pay for funeral expenses and to travel to dover. it is $100,000 that comes about three days after the soldier dies. we will have more on the impact on veterans. right now, crews are cleaning up after a mess on the outer loop in green belt. about four hours ago, the tractor-trailer overturned right at the exit. as you can see another car is involved. police tell us that tractor-trailer was carrying trash. we are learning to hear how it will be cleaned up. traffic just got
chuck hagel will be in delaware when the remains of four u.s. soldiers killed in afghanistan arrive. private 50 class cody patterson was one killed on sunday. the remains of all four are being flown to dover for processing. the families are usually there, but it's rare for the secretary of defense to be. they call it a dignified return ceremony. no word on whether hagel's visit has to do with the families not getting the death benefits because of the shut down. they want to make sure the...
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. >>> a full senate vote could happen sometime this week to approve chuck hagel as the nation's next defense secretary. the senate armed services committee voted along party lines in hagel's favor. hagel faces opposition from his fellow republicans. many challenged his past statements on -- hagel is president obama's choice to succeed leon panetta. >>> health officials in new zealand won't be adding health warnings on soft drink labels. after a woman who drank two gallons of coca-cola a day died of a heart attack. a coroner said the amount of soda and caffeine she drank likely led to imbalances that caused her heart problems. officials with the food and grocery council say labels will not save anyone who chooses to drink 30 cans of coke a day. >>> the federal trade commission says the makers of four loko will be required to put an alcohol fat panel on the backs of every can. the facts include the alcohol by volume and number of servings. fusion came under pier for deceptive marketing. they will also have to change the cans containing more than 2 1/2 servings of alcohol so they can be
. >>> a full senate vote could happen sometime this week to approve chuck hagel as the nation's next defense secretary. the senate armed services committee voted along party lines in hagel's favor. hagel faces opposition from his fellow republicans. many challenged his past statements on -- hagel is president obama's choice to succeed leon panetta. >>> health officials in new zealand won't be adding health warnings on soft drink labels. after a woman who drank two gallons of...
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secretary of state john kerry and defense secretary chuck hagel will hold meetings with their russian counterparts. police are looking for a man who shot and killed a man in the 4100 block of weaver road. police are looking for a man wearing a white tee shirt and red ball cap. jummy. >> the wildfire in california is 75% contained. the fire destroyed 26 homes and threatened 500 others. 1800 people have been forced to evacuate that area. the blaze broke out wednesday afternoon 99 miles east of los angeles and it's really spread quickly. it now covers 22 square miles and it's still unclear what caused that fire. >> track work disruptions on metro from 10:00 tonight until closing on sunday. on the l and b lines there will be a minor service lines. yellow and blue lines trains every 20 minutes rather than the usual 12 months to provide more frequent service additional trains on the red line between dupont circle and gallaudet. >> this warm weather we've been having what better way to cool off than a water park. >> great, great suggestions and, of course, that's the suggestion meteorologist
secretary of state john kerry and defense secretary chuck hagel will hold meetings with their russian counterparts. police are looking for a man who shot and killed a man in the 4100 block of weaver road. police are looking for a man wearing a white tee shirt and red ball cap. jummy. >> the wildfire in california is 75% contained. the fire destroyed 26 homes and threatened 500 others. 1800 people have been forced to evacuate that area. the blaze broke out wednesday afternoon 99 miles east...
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his possible replacement as defense secretary, former nebraska senator chuck hagel, could move one step closer to being confirmed today. the senate armed services committee plans to put hagel's nomination up for a vote. >>> most people you meet know their credit score off the top of their heads. you may want to double-check it this week. the federal trade commission says as many as 40 million americans have errors on their credit reports. including the spelling of your name, your address, your birthday and in some cases even your payment history. those mistakes can keep you from getting a loan qualifying for lower interest rates or cost you a job. if you find a mistake on your credit report. you're advised to contact the credit reporting agencies to have that immediately resolved. >>> let's check in with angie goff on the live desk with breaking news. >> wrestling fans not happy with this one. the international olympic committee deciding today to remove the sport of wrestling from the 2020 olympics. this after the executive board held a meeting had morning. now, other sports being consi
his possible replacement as defense secretary, former nebraska senator chuck hagel, could move one step closer to being confirmed today. the senate armed services committee plans to put hagel's nomination up for a vote. >>> most people you meet know their credit score off the top of their heads. you may want to double-check it this week. the federal trade commission says as many as 40 million americans have errors on their credit reports. including the spelling of your name, your...
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. >>> the senate will vote next week on whether to confirm chuck hagel as defense secretary. political analysts expect him to win approval despite a brewing confirmation hearing yesterday. he was grilled on his stance on iran and israel. if confirmed, he'll succeed leon panetta. >>> we'll find out if a mistrial will be declared in the case of a former culpeper police officer. two dictionaries and a thesaurus were found in the swrir room after the verdict was handed down on tuesday. jury members apparently looked up the definition of the word malice which suggests that they might have been confused about their instructions. daniel harmon-wright claimed he shot patricia ann cook last year when his arm was caught in her suv window when she tried to drive away. >>> d.c. police need your help identifying a man who kidnapped and groped a teen. the attack happened yesterday morning in the 5100 block of nannie hill and boroughs avenue. a man got out of his suv and forced the teen inside. he drove her a few blocks away, groped her and let her go. if you saw anything, call d.c. police.
. >>> the senate will vote next week on whether to confirm chuck hagel as defense secretary. political analysts expect him to win approval despite a brewing confirmation hearing yesterday. he was grilled on his stance on iran and israel. if confirmed, he'll succeed leon panetta. >>> we'll find out if a mistrial will be declared in the case of a former culpeper police officer. two dictionaries and a thesaurus were found in the swrir room after the verdict was handed down on...
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a vote is expected on the confirmation of chuck hagel as second of defense. he spent hours answering questions from the senate armed services committee. lawmakers wanted clarification on various positions hagel has taken in the past. he had one con stentious explanation with john mccain. >> were you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder had this country since vietnam? >> i'm not going to give you a yes or no. i think it's far more complicated than that. >> if confirmed, hagel, will replace leon panetta as defense secretary. he'd be the first vietnam veteran to hold that position. >>> at this hour, a search for a missing teenager in takoma park, maryland. this is a picture of 16-year-old vanessa hendersonment she was last seen on hudson avenue about noon yesterday. police believe she's wearing a gray sweatshirt, blue jeans and pink and black nike sneakers. she's about 5'6", 130 pounds and has a birthmark under her right eye. she has an acoustic guitar with her. if you have any information, call pol
a vote is expected on the confirmation of chuck hagel as second of defense. he spent hours answering questions from the senate armed services committee. lawmakers wanted clarification on various positions hagel has taken in the past. he had one con stentious explanation with john mccain. >> were you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder had this country since vietnam? >> i'm not going to give you a yes or no. i think...
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officials do say this was not a perfect performance from chuck hagel who, as you point out, is a republican who spent 12 years here in the senate representing nebraska. that should have made him very familiar with hearing that can get contentious, but it didn't turn out that way. respected for his decorated combat service in vietnam, but repeatedly pressed about his views on today's hot spots, even democrats took issue when chuck hagel referred to iran as a legitimate government. >> i do not see iran or the iranian government as a legitimate government. i want your thoughts on that. >> what i meant to say is it's recognizable, is recognized at the united nations. >> reporter: both parties wanted reassurance on israel. >> i'm a strong supporter of israel. i have been. i will continue to be. >> reporter: while hagel had done prep sessions in advanced, he appeared unprepared when challenged on past statements, like saying the jewish lobby intimidates on capitol hill. >> name one person, in your opinion, who is intimidated by the israeli lobby in the united states senate. >> well, first -- >> n
officials do say this was not a perfect performance from chuck hagel who, as you point out, is a republican who spent 12 years here in the senate representing nebraska. that should have made him very familiar with hearing that can get contentious, but it didn't turn out that way. respected for his decorated combat service in vietnam, but repeatedly pressed about his views on today's hot spots, even democrats took issue when chuck hagel referred to iran as a legitimate government. >> i do...
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chuck hagel says tens of thousands of people who currently deal with programs designed to respond and prohibit sexual harassment and military recruiters will be recertified on how to handle the situations. >>> police in florida are investigating a breakin at the home of didi trotter. among the stolen items, some olympic rings and other memorabilia from the time at 2012 games. they don't think trotter was specifically targeted and there is a rise in burglaries in that area as of late. >>> venezuela is dealing with a crisis of epic proportions. it's almost hard to talk about. they are running out of toilet paper. >> oh, no. >> it's bad. really bad. the government is blaming political opponents for the toilet paper shortfall, and economists say it stems from price controls meant to make basic goods available to the poor. people have waited days to buy it. a four roll per person rule. in venezuela, they just can't spare a square. >> totally let down. >> totally wiped out. >> he's been waiting all morning to use that. >> my line was a little better. although i do like your line. >> okay. f
chuck hagel says tens of thousands of people who currently deal with programs designed to respond and prohibit sexual harassment and military recruiters will be recertified on how to handle the situations. >>> police in florida are investigating a breakin at the home of didi trotter. among the stolen items, some olympic rings and other memorabilia from the time at 2012 games. they don't think trotter was specifically targeted and there is a rise in burglaries in that area as of late....
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chuck hagel should get committee approval today, which means he could be confirmed by thursday. >> valerie jarrett is senior adviser to president obama. good morning to you. >> good morning, savannah. how are you? >> very well, thank you. i do want to talk about the state of the union. let's start with north korea, which conducted its third and most powerful nuclear test overnight. convening an emergency meeting of the security council, the u.n. is, but what is left in the sanctions of one of the countries that is the most sanctioned and still defies? >> it violates multiple u.n. security resolutions. it is threatening to the united states, it is destabilizing and not necessarily in the best interest of north korea. it doesn't strengthen north korea. it makes it more vulnerable, isolates it and increases the impoverishment of the country. let's not get ahead that have meeting and see what happens. >> the president addressing the nation tonight, i want to start by reading you a quote from the president. now is the time to jump-start job creation, restart lending and invest in areas like ene
chuck hagel should get committee approval today, which means he could be confirmed by thursday. >> valerie jarrett is senior adviser to president obama. good morning to you. >> good morning, savannah. how are you? >> very well, thank you. i do want to talk about the state of the union. let's start with north korea, which conducted its third and most powerful nuclear test overnight. convening an emergency meeting of the security council, the u.n. is, but what is left in the...
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hagel including 3,000 in hawaii. >> this is huge relief for the federal workers. >> but families are still being hurt by the shutdown. their daughter, abby, suffering from a rare disorder can't participate in a new clinical trial at the national institutes of health. >> we're angry. angry for my daughter. how can they not get along to make this work? >> in washington, president obama is sticking to his guns demanding republicans end the shutdown bypassing a so-called clean c.r. a budget extension without any changes to the president's health care law. but house speaker john boehner insists that wouldn't pass. >> there are not the votes in the house to pass a clean c.r. >> reporter: the white house is challenging boehner to put that to a test and the pro obama group is accusing the gop of being irresponsible. >> we're all losing out. >> reporter: as many as 22 republicans would likely vote with democrats to reopen the government today, no strings attached. that's more than the 217 votes needed. and now the clock is ticking toward another potentially disasterous deadline, october 17th
hagel including 3,000 in hawaii. >> this is huge relief for the federal workers. >> but families are still being hurt by the shutdown. their daughter, abby, suffering from a rare disorder can't participate in a new clinical trial at the national institutes of health. >> we're angry. angry for my daughter. how can they not get along to make this work? >> in washington, president obama is sticking to his guns demanding republicans end the shutdown bypassing a so-called...